In this episode of the Arkansas Inc. Podcast, Secretary of Commerce Hugh McDonald, Patrick Howarth of ExxonMobil, and Jesse Edmondson of Standard Lithium discuss the lithium industry in Arkansas, the opportunities the industry presents, and the Arkansas Lithium Innovation Summit.

WHERE TO LISTEN

The Arkansas Inc. Podcast is available on the following platforms:

TRANSCRIPT

Hi, this is Hugh McDonald, Secretary of Commerce for the state of Arkansas.

Hi, this is Jesse Edmondson, director of government relations for Standard Lithium.

Hi, I'm Patrick Howarth, Lithium Global Business director for ExxonMobil, and you are listening to the Arkansas Inc Podcast.

Welcome to the Arkansas Inc podcast. I'm Clark Cogbill and I serve as director of marketing and communications for the Arkansas Department of Commerce. Over the past few years, a new industry has rapidly emerged in South Arkansas around the production of lithium. The source of this lithium is the Smackover Formation, a vast deposit of substantial lithium concentration within its brine. Companies like ExxonMobil, Chevron, Standard Lithium, Albemarle, Tetra, and others have taken notice and have made significant investments in the region, creating hundreds of new jobs. As global demand for electric vehicles and energy storage surges, lithium has become a critical resource, and South Arkansas has emerged as a major player in the domestic production of lithium. Joining us today on the podcast are representatives from two companies at the forefront of lithium production in South Arkansas, Patrick Howarth, Lithium Global Business director for ExxonMobil, and Jesse Edmonson, director of government relations for Standard Lithium. Also joining us is a return guest of the Arkansas Inc Podcast, Hugh McDonald, Secretary of Commerce for the state of Arkansas. Patrick, Jesse, Hugh and I will be attending and participating in the Arkansas Lithium Innovation Summit on October 28th and 29th in Little Rock. And I'm excited to talk to all of them today. Patrick, Jesse and Hugh, welcome to the Arkansas Inc podcast.

Thank you.

And thank you, Clark.

Patrick, we'll start with you. I would love to hear a little background from you about your career journey that led you to your current role with ExxonMobil.

Certainly, I'd love to. So, irstly, thanks for hosting the podcast. It's great to be here. I've got 20 years with ExxonMobil. I started off as a chemical engineer, and for the vast majority of the 20 years, I've been doing business development and commercial activities, really around resource development. And a few years ago, I had the opportunity to lead a strategy effort looking at some new businesses that we could potentially get into. And one of those was lithium. And so what we're really focused on there is how we bring our oil and gas skills into lithium. So, I've had a fabulous opportunity to lead the lithium team now for the last four years.

Well, we're excited you're in that role. Jesse, how about you? Give us an overview of your career up to this point.

Yeah, thanks, Clark. So, an Arkansas native and geologist by training at the University of Arkansas. I've been in mineral exploration since 2011 - worked in gold, silver, but got started in critical minerals as a geologist in 2012, first looking at graphite in the Southeastern United States. But since that time I've had the opportunity to support a number of projects as a geologist, doing business development work and government relations work, kind of all around critical minerals. So I've had a really great opportunity to look at a lot of projects, support a lot of projects at various stages and then, and where multiple hats for those outfits. So, for most of the last five to seven years, I've done more business development and government relations work, supporting critical mineral and battery material projects  was really on the conference circuit, , for our industry and first learned about Standard Lithium in 2018, got to meet their management team and was really just impressed by the project. At that time, it was definitely a first of its kind. , if you're really just starting to hear about direct lithium extraction and all those things. So, I just really got, you know, fell in love with the, , the project, the team, stayed in touch with them. A  couple years later had the opportunity, , to support them doing government relations work. So, it's , really a pleasure and a privilege to get to support a cool project in my home state on something that's really so core to, , the future of American mineral security and, and energy security.

Absolutely. And, I'm going to tap into that geology background of yours later, , in the podcast. Patrick, most people know ExxonMobil as a Fortune Top 10 multinational oil and gas company. What led ExxonMobil to enter the lithium industry?

So, as you imagine with a company the size of ExxonMobil, we're constantly looking at new opportunities around the globe. And one of the things that we really focus on is trying to find businesses that we can deploy our legacy business skills and capabilities to. So, think of subsurface, um, process engineering, our marketing capabilities that we have within our traditional businesses. And then we look for businesses that we can, , we can deploy them into. And when we saw lithium and specifically DLE lithium for these deeper brines like the Smackover, we saw a real opportunity there to bring the best of what we do in our existing businesses into a new business area to, , hopefully unlock value for the, , for the US and build out a domestic supply chain for lithium.

And so, given the decision to enter the lithium industry, the DLE industry, how did ExxonMobil decide to invest specifically in the Smackover formation in South Arkansas?

That's a great question and one that's actually really exciting for Arkansas. So when, when we start off on a journey to look, at getting into a new resource like lithium, we obviously look all the way around the globe. And what we found in Arkansas was a great combination. You know, it's got a resource that has been known about for, for many decades. , it's got,an existing workforce that's used to oil and gas operations, chemical operations, like the bromine industry. And really importantly, it's got a regulatory regime that is supportive of brine development. Arkansas's been blessed with bromine production for over 50 years, and that means that the Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission is really used to, , permitting and understanding, um, how to move businesses forward in the brine space. And so when we looked around the world and we said, hey, there's this new type of business where we take deep brine and put it through DLE. Um, what we saw was an opportunity in Arkansas to, to really unlock that, um, and actually do that quicker because the regulations were already in place.

That's really good to hear. Hugh, obviously there's been a ton of activity around lithium in the past two, three years. From your point of view, as Secretary of Commerce, help us put this industry in perspective and the potential impact to the economy of Arkansas.

Well, Clark, first, thank you for hosting this podcast. These are great conversations. And first, I'd say that, you know, Arkansas's got a very diversified economy from the start. You know, we have - we're becoming the number one steel producing state in the country. We have Fortune One company, Walmart in retail and logistics and supply chain. We've got a really strong aerospace defense business, wood timber products. So, we've got a really good diversified economy and this is, you know, just a new industry that is going to continue to help us further diversify. And it's going to be, you know, the governor has made no secret that she wants Arkansas to lead in lithium. And I believe that, , you know, this place this will have a very significant impact regionally, , as a regional player in the lithium space, and, certainly long-term to become a national leader.

So a follow-up question, as you saw the potential for growth from the industry around lithium as you begin to see it, what did you say to yourself that as a state we had to get right to make sure we didn't miss the opportunity?

Well, first, you know, first I had to get up to speed myself on this industry very quick. My my background is electric utility business. And, um, so, you know, it it is a very complicated and global supply chain. , lithium from, you know, from the extraction of the product to the to the end use product. Um, and it goes in a thousand different directions all over the globe. So, we couldn't as a state, we can't be all things to all people. So, what is our strategy? And first, we we wanted to develop and focus what our strategy should be. And, , we hired Benchmark Minerals to help us with that. And they really helped us, um, , you know, focus in on, you know, from the extraction point of view, um, , to also the midstream and upstream, that that that should be our near-term focus. It doesn't preclude us from playing long-term in the end use products, but that's that's what we've decided what we should focus on. And, , you know, , you know, the state, , is supporting the industry, of course. Um, Patrick mentioned the royalty regime. , we've got that right. We've got some incentive, , incentives passed, financial incentives passed in this last legislative session. , our regulatory regime is, , used to, , the, , the extraction of natural resources and bromine. So, this is this all fits into play and the state, the state, um, um, can and has a has a significant, , position to to, , support the industry, advocacy in DC, workforce development, you know, promoting the industry via the summit, um, the, , ALTA, the Arkansas Lithium Technology accelerator that we've started. So, all these things the state is, , really, um, , tried to tried to, , support the industry to get started.

It's all fits into play and the state, the state um, , can and has a has a significant position to support the industry, advocacy in DC, workforce development, you know, promoting the industry via the summit, and the ALTA, the Arkansas Lithium Technology accelerator that we've started. So, all these things the state really tried to support the industry to get started.

All right, I'm going to go back to Jesse, and this is where I'm going to tap into your geology background. Um, the Smackover formation is not your average lithium deposit. Um, can you explain for our listeners what makes the Smackover formation unique and particularly appealing to companies like Standard Lithium, ExxonMobil, Chevron, et cetera.

Sure, Clark. So, yeah, the Smackover formation is a prolific, , limestone unit that runs, , all the way from East Texas down to the Florida pan handle. And it contains within it a globally, , significant brine resource. So, it's what's interesting, it's got over 100 years of energy history, , with oil and gas production. , brine early on was looked at as a nuisance to oil and gas, , producers, but sometime around 50, 60 years ago, we realized that there was, , other minerals in that brine that that made it potentially lucrative and economic and interesting. And so, , as Patrick pointed out, you know, there's been a long history of bromine production in Southern Arkansas, utilizing that resource. Um, and in recent decades, we've realized again that there's even more stuff in it. And so lithium was known to be recognized, , in this brine. And I think what's interesting and unique about it, um, you look right now where most of the world's lithium comes from, it's two main sources. It's kind of what it would be traditional brines. These are high elevation, , desert environments where you've got closed basins, kind of old dry lake beds, and you drill holes, pump the brine to the surface, but you put it in these large evaporation ponds. So, it requires a really large environmental footprint. , it's a lengthy process. It's finicky. Um, the other half of the world's most of that's done in South America right now, so Chile and Argentina. There's one small operation in Nevada that produces about 5,000 tons per year. Um, it's on the lower grade side of things. And so it's kind of limping along, but it's , it's we're limited in kind of traditional brine resources, , in the United States. The other half is hard rock. Most of that comes out of the ground in Australia. Um, the problem with both of those is when they come out of the ground, it's kind of an intermediate product. They still go to China or or Asia to be processed into a battery ready product. So, um, the supply chain is, as Hugh pointed out, is is quite complicated. The opportunity in the United States, given the the looming demand for lithium, is that we need our own domestic production. Yet again, we don't have these there's limited options on traditional brines. , there's limited hard rock potential. There's some potential around lithium clays. We won't go down that rabbit hole, but that's also a first of its kind kind of project. But when you look at the Smackover formation, it's the highest grade lithium brine in North America. Um, it requires direct lithium extraction to unlock that lithium because there's too much rainfall in Southern Arkansas and East Texas. So, even if you wanted to do evaporation ponds, you couldn't. So, it's really that it's a moment in time where now the technology is in place, , to unlock the Smackover. Um, and then the it's worth unlocking because it is so high grade. So, you know, we see grades in in Arkansas over, , 600 or 4 to 600 milligrams, , per liter. You go west into Texas, , it gets even better to 6 to 800 milligrams per liter. But as Patrick pointed out, Arkansas's really got first mover advantage because it's got all that regulatory framework in place. You've got that existing, , bromine industry. And so, , you've got a local skilled workforce. You've got a lot of things going for you. And so it's really that first advantage, , first mover advantage that Arkansas has that's really so exciting.

Yeah. Um, great to hear. And you kind of answered part of the question I was going to ask you, which I asked Patrick, about, you know, what led to Standard Lithium's decision to invest in South Arkansas. , wherever you make that decision, it is a calculated risk for a company. So, anything else you want to add to that? You know, so many, I mean, there's a limited number of places in the world, but there are choices. So, what was the difference for Standard Lithium and making the choice to come to South Arkansas?

Well, yeah, Patrick hit all the highlights. The the thing that was, um, that really motivated us and I think has been incredible for for our path in in Arkansas and with, , DLE is the opportunity that we saw to, , get a partnership with Length this early on to set up a demonstration plan at their length of South facility. So, because you had that existing bromine industry, we showed up, said, hey, can we build a demonstration plan on the back end of your operation? And so since May of 2020, we've operated the first of its kind demo plant, , at that facility. That's allowed us to really test, optimize, , our technology, derisk that technology, but more importantly, build a a local workforce. So, we've got over 30 now local operators that know how to run our DLE, , technology. And so, we look at where we're at today, you know, we've, , processed over 33 million gallons gallons of Smackover brine using our technology. We've got over 300,000 man hours, , of work that's been put into derisking that technology and getting it commercial ready. So, at this point, it's proven, we're ready to hit the ground running. And that that's really a unique opportunity that was presented, um, by Arkansas.

Well, that's great to hear. Um, I'm going to go back to Patrick. , Patrick, you know, tell us, I'm obviously, I'm sure with your existing oil and gas operations, your long history and expertise in that area, you know, how were you able to leverage that as you, as ExxonMobil entered lithium extraction and then how is it different from drilling for oil and gas?

Yeah, so maybe if we start with what are we actually physically talking about when we talk about lithium extraction? We can paint, we can paint that picture and then talk about how our ExxonMobil skills and capabilities fit into it. So, within the Smackover, what we need to do is to drill wells about 10,000 feet deep and produce the salty brine to the surface. You then take that brine, you pump it to a central facility. And at that central facility, you've got to remove some impurities. So, in Smackover, there's H2S, there's some organics, , et cetera. And then you've got to extract the lithium. And what's really important here, although the Smackover is a great resource and high grade, it's still only 4, 500 ppm of lithium, so that's parts per million. And you've got to extract the lithium using some pretty high-end technology and then process that lithium into a battery grade chemical that ultimately you have to then ship to a customer, um, ideally in the US or somewhere else around the planet. And all of those steps require a lot of ingenuity to put together in one, , one integrated process. And I think that's where ExxonMobil really excels is we've got subsurface capabilities. So, that, yeah, 100 plus years of geologists and reservoir engineers working together to maximize the value of resources around the planet. And when we get to the surface, it's, you know, our process engineering capabilities, our technologists, at ExxonMobil, we've got over 2,000 PhDs on staff as employees that are able to provide, you know, the best expertise they can in, and we've seen that to be a huge help. Rather than hiring a consultant, we call someone up, we can get them for an hour if we need them, a day, or a week to help solve a problem, , within the process flow. And then on the back end, we've got over 100 years of working with automotive companies to develop really high-tech innovative products, um, and sell them reliably over decades. And so we've we've seen a real big pull from some of the automotive companies, especially in the US, for, , for the lithium that we're planning to produce. And so it's that integration of, you know, from subsurface to engineering, to marketing, and our customer relations, pulling that all together in one package is is really why I think we're going to excel.

Yeah, thanks for going through that. It is so exciting to see the growth, um, to see the investment happening. Hugh, , growth is good. , when we talk about economic development. The issue that's always at the forefront is workforce. How is Arkansas preparing our workforce to meet the rapidly growing demand for workers in this industry?

Yeah, great question. , yeah, workforce and power. Those are the two, those are the two big issues right now when you're when we're growing. , but with regard to workforce, when the governor took office, one of her top priorities was the education workforce development side of the equation. And really getting our educational institutions more in line with our employers, the needs, the workforce needs of our employers. So, there so they become more market-driven. Um, and, , we've developed she's under the leadership of the Governor, um, and many other folks within inside and outside of state government, we've developed a workforce strategy that is more market-focused around our, you know, our strengths, what we do here in Arkansas. And those workforce needs that we need today, as well as the workforce needs that we're projecting over the next five to 10 years. And, um, , we we've developed this, um, competitive application process for a number of grants, higher grants and spent really allocated about $90 million in specific workforce development, um, disciplines in, I don't know, 15 to 20 different institutions across the state. One of those was, , a couple over a couple million dollars was allocated to, , universities, um, universities and to your colleges, um, , in South Arkansas. SAU Tech, South Arc, , and, , SAU. And they've developed, , an effort called Lithium Learns, , that is, you know, from K through 12, all the way through, , college, , four years college and I think even beyond that in terms of research, um, a Lithium Learns, , that was industry driven, , curriculum. There's also an effort called Lithium Works that is, , attempts to tie in existing businesses to educational institutions and to, , the the growing lithium industry. So, we don't leave out those, um, existing businesses that, um, that also have an opportunity to grow as well. So, there's been a lot of effort on the workforce development front, , in this particular area over the last couple years.

Yeah, um, and shout out to Sheryl Edwards at, Southern Arkansas University and Arthur Odanya at the Venture Center here in Little Rock. Both of them have been very involved in LiTHIUMLEARNS and LiTHIUMWORKS.

Yep, huge, huge, huge work on their part.

I'm going to continue to bounce around. I'm back to you, Jesse. Standard Lithium and Equinor formed a joint venture last year called Smackover Lithium. Great name. Can you tell us what this joint venture is all about and what its focus is in South Arkansas?

Sure, I quickly just wanted to give a shout out on the workforce development piece because that's so that's so key and we're basically setting the bar for that across the country. So, it's really hats off to the governor's team and what they've done with that. But it's something that when we have conversations in DC or when we have conversations with our industry peers, , they take notes, , hearing about what we're doing. So, I think we're setting the pace there. There's also the Arkansas Lithium Technology Accelerator, which is really meant to kind of build out the ecosystem. So, that's another initiative started by, , the governor being run by the Venture Center where the, um, the Walton Foundation has also contributed to that as well. So, again, really trying to make sure that the lithium resource is leveraged to attract other parts of the supply chain and making sure essentially every corner of the state of Arkansas, , benefits from this opportunity. Um, so I just, I think that's really important, so I just wanted to emphasize that and as I know Patrick shares in that, that it's it's a thank you from industry to the state that you guys are doing such a great job with that.

Yeah, thanks for sharing that.

Yeah, totally agree.

Um, so really quick Smackover Lithium is our our joint venture with Equinor. , those of you that don't know the name Equinor, Equinor is a global energy company, , based out of Norway. , I think a top 10 globally. They've oil and gas, , alternative energy, carbon sequestration and, , we're they're kind of their, , their first major lithium project. So, it's really exciting. They invested, , at the project level. So, Smackover Lithium, um, is is essentially the the project umbrella that covers both, , the SWA project, which is our our flagship project in Southwest Arkansas, , 22,500 tons per year of, , battery quality lithium carbonate on track to the in production in, , 2028. We just got our, , had our definitive feasibility study come out, , and we're marching towards FID, , hopefully by the end of the year. And then we're also partnered with them, , on our projects in East Texas. Um, so Standard Lithium remains the, , the majority owner and the operator of both projects, but we really benefit, , from Equinor, the a great partner, super respectful, you know, they they came in as a much larger company to partner with us, but they truly, , treat us as equals across the table. , they bring a lot to the table, a lot more than than just a a big PB bank, right? They've got a lot of expertise in subsurface, , and building and operating, , pipelines and all sorts of, you know, harsh environments around the planet. So, I think, you know, , they're a great partner to us. We're really excited to have them and I think, you know, it's a further endorsement of the quality of the Smackover. Similar, , to Exon coming in, right? So, I when one of the ways that I look at it is here you've got the largest energy companies on the planet that have more subsurface data points on the geology of the subsurface of the earth than anybody. And for all of those big big companies to have this data globally and to say the first lithium company the first lithium projects that they want to develop are in Southwest Arkansas, it says a ton about the quality of the resource and it says a ton about the state of the Arkansas as a good place to do business. So, you know, we showed up, , kind of first in the Smackover in 2017 in Arkansas, really officially in 2018. And then we've been in Texas, , since 2020. So, we like , , to think that we we made a good decision coming when we did and , happy to see everybody else here too. It's it's, you know, there's some competition between us, but really not a lot. , Patrick's pointed this out before before and I appreciate this that really there's there's opportunities for all of us to to thrive. There might be short-term little competitive things where we're trying to kind of jockey for position. But, you know, with land and leasing and things like this. But it's really a situation where the the country needs us all to be successful. The supply chain needs us all to be successful. And Southern Arkansas needs us all to be successful. And so there's a ton of opportunities for us to jump in the same boat, row in the same direction on on the kind of the bigger opportunity here. And so again, really appreciate the leadership, , from the state, from , Secretary McDonald's been very hands-on, , from the beginning and making sure that we're pushing in the right direction. Anytime something gets stuck, make sure that it's not for a silly reason and we keep keep pushing in the right direction. And so, you know, we haven't done a perfect job, but I think we've done a pretty good job as a state so far. And I think, , it's just going to, you know, we just got to keep the momentum and keep going from here. But it's , it's really exciting.

There's competition and I think it's safe to say there's collaboration too. Earlier this year, Arkansas oil and gas regulators approved royalty rates for both Standard Lithium and Salt Works, an ExxonMobil affiliate. How important was that to ExxonMobil's lithium strategy going forward?

Yeah, I think it was really important, , not only for us, but also for the development of all the projects in the state. Um, it was probably the last remaining barrier towards, , from a regulatory perspective towards development. And it was really critical because we needed to establish a royalty that was fair and equitable, but also competitive, , around the globe. Because, , when we look at, , sources of lithium, you know, whether it's Chile or China, it's it's really about how can Southwest Arkansas compete for investment dollars. And I think what they've what the Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission in their ruling did, , was set up, , Southwest Arkansas as a place that's, , supportive of investment and building out this industry.

Well, I know that was a big step, um, to get past. Something I want to ask all three of you, , and I'm going to start with, , Hugh, over the next five to 10 years, what's your vision for the scale and role of South Arkansas in the global lithium market?

Great question. Um, obviously, , you know, we're talking a lot about extraction and refining here and and, , the the upcoming summit. There's a there's quite a bit of discussion on, , in fact, there's a panel called the Missing Midstream, what the what the country misses is missing in the supply chain is, you know, the refining, , the the cathode industry, the anode industry. China produces 95% of the world's anodes and probably 70% of the cathodes. We have got to start building that supply chain in this country. Um, and we think that in Arkansas, you know, our our strategy over the next five to 10 years is to in fact do that. We think we're perfectly situated, um, to , to start building out that midstream. It's happening in other parts of the country. , but the resource is here and we think, you know, our power prices are low. Um, , we've got, , legislation passed this this legislative session to add generation and transmission capacity where it's needed on a much quicker scale on strategic investments. So, so over the next five or 10 years, we hope that the, , lithium industry is growing, moving into that midstream area in the CAM, cathode, energy storage, separators, electrolytes, , in a in a big way.

Jesse, how would you answer that question? Where do you see South Arkansas and the global market in the next five to 10 years?

Well, I think, , I think Southern Arkansas is going to have a flag waving high, , in terms of domestic production. So, I think to me what, you know, if there's even if there's one successful lithium project at commercial scale that gets deployed in Arkansas, the industry should be proud of that, the state should be proud of that, and the country should be relieved and proud of that. I think that and so if 20,000 tons comes online in the next five years, that should be seen as a huge win. I think where things are stacking up for Arkansas is that, you know, Standard Lithium, ourselves and then the my friends at Exon on on the call here, you know, it's conceivable that within that five to 10 year time frame that we've actually got 100,000 tons, , per , of battery quality lithium carbonate or technical grade carbonate coming out of the ground in Southern Arkansas. And so if that happens, that's going to be, , tremendous. But I think I think we it's important to keep the perspective that we're only producing 5,000 tons per year right now. And so again, any multiple of that that happens, , and for that to happen in Arkansas is going to be huge. And then, , to Secretary's point, you know, to build out some of these other parts of the supply chain in the state, particularly around cathode, , I really think it's smart and clever, , from the governor's office to really, , identify, hey, let's get good at getting lithium out of the ground. Let's get really good at DLE. So, kind of can Arkansas become an innovation and R&D hub for various DLE technologies and crystallization technologies. And then be good at that next step of the supply chain, , which is missing from the entire US. So, it's a it's a matter of filling that gap in the supply chain. Bob Gallion, who's one of the the keynotes I was at a talk of his recently where he said, you know, the battery industry is hard. The opportunities are to make money are in the missing gaps. And so I think that's a huge opportunity, , for the state. , it's something that if we can get that cathode production in the United States, it helps, , the lithium producers as well. Um, and again, it it from an environmental footprint standpoint too, it's great because that material now it's not traveling all over the world, , to get into, , the customer's hands. So, this idea of building out the the lithium ecosystem in Arkansas is really exciting. And then when you look to within kind of a a half day or a day's drive of the Southeastern United States, seeing all the other complementary projects, , and parts of the supply chain that are coming together. It's really a great opportunity, , for for not only the state, but for the region, um, to really shine, , and in this supply chain going forward.

And Patrick, anything you would add to that in terms of your vision for the next five to 10 years when you look at South Arkansas?

I'd start by zooming out and looking at the US, right? And so what we see in the US is a critical need to build out a domestic supply chain for batteries. Batteries are essential for our everyday lives, whether that's the power drill that you use to do the DIY project at the weekend, whether that's transportation, whether it's defense, whether it's battery backup for data centers. Um, we we're going to need a lot of batteries as we get look out into the future. And we urgently need to build out the battery supply chain within the US. That has a number of different components. So, to, , to build out the batteries, you first need a battery plant, and the US has seen actually pretty good investment into battery plants already. You then need cathode and anode. And so as both Hugh and Jesse mentioned, you know, building out that that lost middle of the the cathode manufacturing is critical because today if lithium was produced in North America, it would have to go overseas to get processed before coming back. So, cathode's really important. Anode is also really important. Actually a shout out to some of my colleagues here at ExxonMobil. We've just started up, , an advanced graphite business, , and looking to bring domestic graphite production to the US. And so that's really exciting as well. And then we take a step back, , further upstream to to lithium production. And as we've said, there's very limited, , domestic lithium production today. And Southwest Arkansas, I believe, is the best place to go, , develop lithium within, , within the US. And so what does success look like for Arkansas over the next five to 10 years? It's really a build-out of an industry that can meet the US needs for lithium. I see that as multi-project potential within the region. So, I'm, um, I'm bullish and, , and really optimistic that multiple, , projects can get developed in Southwest Arkansas. But I think we have to do it right, and it's not about rushing towards getting a project online. It's about setting up a sustainable business that is a, , enabled to really give economic development to the local communities for decades to come. Just like we've seen from the bromine side, what we want is sustainable businesses that can ride the volatility of the of the price cycles, have jobs in the local community, give back to the local community. And I think that's one of the things that if I if I imagine what success looks like, it's a thriving business, not in five years, but in 50 years.

Well said, Patrick, yeah.

Indeed. , Patrick, I'm going to stay with you. , as the lithium industry continues to grow, what does Arkansas need to do to set itself up for success and to to maximize the opportunity?

So, firstly, I want to shout out to the governor and Secretary McDonald and everyone else that's been involved so far. I've worked in multiple jurisdictions and countries all over the planet, and I've never seen a, , a local community, a, , state-level, um, support for resource development like we see in Arkansas. And that's one of the reasons why we keep, , pushing towards development of these lithium resources. , I think it's really important that, you know, we we keep the eye on the prize of, , of what long-term, , development looks like here, building out, , the workforce, um, like we've got with lithium works and lithium learns. I think those are great programs that we're we're really happy to invest. , we're we're really happy to invest in. I think the thing that that really comes down to it is, you know, is the local community excited about these developments, right? It's because they're the ones that will be getting jobs in the plants, being, , being able to help with the construction and development of the these projects. So, today, that looks really positive. When we walk around Magnolia and we talk to people, , we see, , a real pull from the local community for these projects. And so we're really excited to kind of stand with the local community and, , and invest.

That's great. Um, Jesse, what would you add to that? What what does Arkansas need to do to to take advantage of of this opportunity that's before it?

Yeah, well, again, I think we're doing a lot of things, , right. So, we got the royalty right. We've got the workforce development, um, moving. And so I think now the challenge is, , to to really just echo what Patrick said, it's making sure that we build this industry out the right way and in a way that that really truly uplifts communities, , in Southern Arkansas. So, I mean, you look at Lafayette County, a population of of 6,000 people is about to be, , home to two or if not three different brine projects. And so how does that all, um, unfold in a way that is that is thoughtful, um, to the communities, but is also, , you know, meaningful and timely for for what industry needs to build, um, to build this these businesses out and to be successful. So, you know, still a lot of, um, basic gaps down there in terms of, you know, healthcare, childcare, , you know, food availability. Things like that are already issues locally. But once you really, , once you start getting construction crews down there and operations going, you know, these are these are, , issues that need to be solved for everybody. And so I think it's a it's a great opportunity again where, um, we can all work together to get this done. Um, and it's it's it's a balancing act, right? Between being where we're at now, knowing these projects are coming versus, , the investments have been made. We've broken ground. And now all this has to kind of quickly come together. So, I think I think we're moving in that right direction, but to continue to collaborate, to cooperate, , to have good communication between all the parties, um, I think that's really key.

Well, I'm going to shift gears a little bit. I'm going to, , shift topics to the Arkansas Lithium Innovation Summit coming up October 28th and 29th in Little Rock, Arkansas. , Hugh, I'll ask you, you know, this this is the second year that we've had this summit. Can you tell us about how this summit idea came together and why we felt like, , we needed a lithium summit in Arkansas?

Well, one of the guys on this call started it, Jesse Edmonson. , it was his idea, um, a couple right when I got into office, , met Jesse probably, , middle of 2023. And, , and, , you know, I thought it was a great idea. Um, I think then Exxon Mobil made their announcement of their major investments in the state. And so, it it really kind of became a, , snowball and, , rolling downhill and and, , with with Jesse's, , expertise and knowledge of all the industry players at the time, we were at the state level, we were just learning. Um, really, , put on a great conference in I think it was what, February of 2024. That's right. And, , , and this this year's conference, I think is going to be better yet. We've got a packed agenda, really, really good, , speakers and this this continues to help, , spread the word about why it's, , why companies should really start looking at the investment in the Smackover.

Well, Patrick, we were thankful that you could be a keynote speaker at our inaugural Arkansas Lithium Innovation Summit and we're so happy that you're back as a keynote speaker this year. I can only imagine that you attend, , and participate in so many conferences, more than we could count. Same with Jesse, same with Hugh. Patrick, what did you find the most useful and maybe unique about the Arkansas Lithium Innovation Summit compared to many other conferences that you go to?

Yeah, I think the key difference is around, um, the the type of people that come. So, if I think about a global lithium conference, what you'll have is a pretty niche group of technology companies, project developers, um, maybe some investors, and it's it's it's all people that are really talking about a very narrow band of projects but on a global basis. And what's great about the summit in, , in Arkansas and Little Rock is that that is a, you know, a depth of capability and talent that's brought into Little Rock to talk about it, and we're really talking about development of one specific resource. So, what was really important for me and, , and a great takeaway was the ability to chat to folks that are in the local community. You know, we had people attend the conference that were just interested in lithium and wanted to learn more. We had local construction companies that were interested in finding out how they could bid for work. And then we had everyone up to, you know, major customers, project developers, global investors, and being able to get all of those people under one roof for a couple of days to talk about how to maximize the impact of lithium in Arkansas. I think it was an incredible, , incredible opportunity, and I'm really excited about the one coming up later this month.

Yeah, we're excited about, , the event coming up later this month. Jesse, as as Hugh said, , you've played a major role for the past two years in organizing the Arkansas Lithium Innovation Summit. When you look at the agenda this year, Jesse, what are you the most excited about?

Oh man, it's world class if I can't brag on it a bit. It's , I think it's going to be the the best attended. I think it's going to have one of the strongest agendas, , out there. , echoing what what Patrick said, I think it's really cool that it's of any conference, it's the best cross-section of everybody you need at the table to build a successful project. So, it it, you know, it's all the people in Arkansas that are going to make this a success. It's the companies making the investments here, , taking that risk, but believing in the state, believing in the resource, believing in their technology. Um, but it's also where does Arkansas fit into this global picture and this global supply chain. And so we're going to be able to hear from literally global experts that if we were going to to one of our typical conferences anywhere around the world, these are the same kind of people that are going to be, , keynoting or or sitting on panels. So, it's we've really got we've really tried to make sure that we're representing that that we're, , it's an opportunity to educate Arkansas's and what is this big thing that they're all about to be a part of. , but it's also a great way to showcase our state, , to investors, to other, , parts of the industry and the supply chain that are also still looking for for a home. So, it's, , you know, meant to be kind of all all of those things. , this year we're going to so we'll hear from all the lithium, , aspiring lithium producers, get updates on where their projects are at. We're really going to dig into this idea of the missing midstream in, , where Arkansas can kind of step into that, , opportunity around, , particularly around cathode. , we're going to get policy updates from some of the brightest people on Capitol Hill in terms of what's going on with critical minerals. , we're going to hear about grid storage applications. We're going to hear about, , defense applications. We're going to hear about DLE technology, different critical mineral processing technologies. , we're going to learn about what's, , kind of happening on the front lines of workforce development in the state. , also going to hear from the universities, what we're doing in terms of, , geology research and chemical, , research. Um, it's it's got something for everybody. The maybe the one thing that's different, , this year from last year is the afternoons will have, , breakout sessions. So, there's actually going to be three parallel sessions going on every afternoon. And so hopefully that provides an opportunity to get more content crammed into two days, but also to where you can kind of choose your path, , over those two days. Um, you know, you don't have to get stuck in a in a technology panel if you want to learn more about workforce development and so on. So, I think, you know, we've tried to be thoughtful in how we've, , we've done it. To your point, you know, , Patrick and I both have conference fatigue. We travel all the time going to events. And so I said if we're going to do an event in Arkansas, it's got to be world class. It's got to be an event that that I would want to go to. , and so, you know, , like seven, eight, nine years of going to, , the conference circuit every year, you know, it turns you into a bit of a snob. And and you want to make sure that you're hearing from the very best people if you're going to, , dedicate your time to doing that. So, , yeah, so it's going to be a top top-notch event. Can't wait to, , have see everybody in Little Rock October 28th and 29th. Get your tickets now. , you don't want to miss it.

You don't want to miss it. That's right. You don't. , well, look, I I want to say, we're very appreciative of both ExxonMobil, Standard Lithium and all our sponsors. And for Jesse and Patrick, , you guys are not only sponsors, but you're deeply involved, and that's going to make our this summit even better. , Secretary McDonald, certainly very involved as well. Um, to learn more about the Arkansas Lithium Innovation Summit, you can go to Arkansas Lithium Summit.com. You can get your ticket, reserve your spot. It's an affordable price compared to so many conferences out there. So, don't miss that opportunity. If you have any interest, , curious or if you're involved in the industry, , check it out. All right, , final questions for each of you. , sometimes on the Arkansas Inc podcast, we do a little rapid fire. , I'm going to start with Patrick. Patrick, if you could go to one restaurant for dinner this evening, anywhere in Arkansas, , where would you choose?

So, I'll give you a two-part answer. Firstly, if I could get a table, it would be at Lefty's in Magnolia. It's great food, and we love going there when we're up there, but then if I was thinking about atmosphere, this is it's not quite right because it's the wrong time of year. But the Blossom Festival in Magnolia, the state cook-off there is world-class, and absolutely love it when I've been.

All right, shout out to Magnolia. Jesse, , if you could spend a weekend anywhere in the state, where would you go?

All expenses paid? I won't need it won't be a high ticket. It's going to be me at the on a boat on a canoe on the Buffalo River, Frog Bayou, the Mulberry River or one of those. So, yeah,  I'm a cheap date.

Well, echo that on the Buffalo. If you haven't been there, do yourself a favor and go. Hugh, if you were going to host somebody from a foreign country in Arkansas and they could fly a private jet to anywhere in the state, where would you arrange for them to go where you could meet them?

Oh, wow. That's a good one. Well, I tell you, a friend and favorite son of Arkansas, who happens to be the United States Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Warren Stephens, has a little golf course out west of Little Rock, and, you know, I would guess, I would ask Warren and he would, welcome foreign business leaders to sample Arkansas at the Alotion golf course.

Well, if that happens, , I can be like backup caddy. , yes, that is a very nice golf course. I want to thank my guests on the Arkansas Inc Podcast today, three very busy gentlemen: Hugh McDonald, Secretary of Commerce for the State of Arkansas, Patrick Howarth, Lithium Global Business Director for ExxonMobil, and Jesse Edmonson, Director of Government Relations for Standard Lithium. Thank you all for taking time to visit with me today.

Thank you, Clark. Thanks, Jesse and Patrick.

Yeah, thank you, Clark.

Thank you, guys.

Well, you've been listening to the Arkansas Inc Podcast. I'm Clark Cogbill, Director of Marketing and Communications for the Arkansas Department of Commerce. You can subscribe to the Arkansas Inc Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other podcast apps. For more information about the Arkansas Economic Development Commission and to sign up for the AEDC monthly newsletter, visit Arkansas AEDC.com and connect with us on LinkedIn, Facebook, X, and YouTube. Thanks for listening, and I hope we'll see you at the Arkansas Lithium Innovation Summit.